Comments on: The White Goddess and Robert Cochrane

By: Grevel

Grevel — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 12:47:09 +0000

This is true; but ‘guiden’ here is clearly being used in a sense that won’t fit: it is just the infinitive of the verb ‘to guide’. Someone has now shown me quite definitely that Cochrane in several other places uses ‘Guiden’ to mean ‘Goddess’ so I think we have the answer.

By: Michael Lussier

Michael Lussier — Mon, 20 Sep 2010 02:44:59 +0000

I very much enjoyed your Cauldron article, and I look forward to reading the Charles Williams biography.

I would also like to point out that ‘guiden’ appears in several Middle English texts. Mr Bowers might have encountered it in Canterbury Tales (specifically, the Prioress’ Story), where Chaucer writes:

“Lady! thy bounty, thy magnificence,
Thy virtue, and thy great humility,
There may no tongue express in no science:
For sometimes, Lady! ere men pray to thee,
Thou go’st before, of thy benignity,
And gettest us the light, through thy prayere,
To guiden us unto thy son so dear.”

No doubt, this passage suggested quite a bit to the passionate Cochrane, who was eagerly seeking the Goddess and Her cycle of consorts.

By: Grevel

Grevel — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 15:41:50 +0000

Yes, I think you’re right. In fact I’ve been contacted by scholar Steve Posch, who has an article on the word ‘Guiden’ coming up in The Cauldron, and he has convinced me that it is intended to mean ‘Goddess’, as your next-to-last point would indicate. As you say, the phrase ‘Guiden Corn’ remains a puzzle. Apologies for the delay in replying to your vcery interesting comment. You’ll have understood why, from reading the blog!

By: Grevel

Grevel — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 15:35:24 +0000

Yes, it’s hard to find the time… And then as soon as you post, you notice something that should have been done better! I just hope practice will make perfect. And I hope the long gap in my blog owing to internet breakdown won’t stop you from reading again. Meanwhile, why not resume (or start) your own blog, with a New Year resolution to write more regularly? I’m sure you’d enjoy it.

By: Grevel

Grevel — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 15:33:28 +0000

Many thanks, and I hope you continue to enjoy it. Sorry about the serious break caused by my internet problems from mid-December to early January. I hope things will go smoothly from now on!

By: Grevel

Grevel — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 15:31:43 +0000

Many thanks for this very kind comment! I’d be delighted if you put a link to my blog. And of course I apologise for taking so long to answer your comment. As you know, I had internet problems until a couple of days ago!

By: Martin Duffy

Martin Duffy — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 13:21:06 +0000

Dear Grevel,
The new letters in the recent issue of the Cauldron were particularly interesting. Regarding your comments on Cochrane’s use of “Guiden Corn”, I note you mention the possibility of it as resulting from a misunderstanding of a Celtic glossary (Guiden meaning ‘tree’ with ‘Corn’ next to it as a shorthand for “of Cornish origin”).

I personally think Cochrane meant somethine else entirely as “Guiden” appears elsewhere in his output, notbaly without the mention of “corn”, these being in a letter to Wilson, “whatever Madame la Guiden has in store – the law is that you will overcome – and in the overcoming find spiritual strength”, and the other being the appearance of “Madame la Guiden” in the blessing of the bread & wine.

Although guiden does appear to be Cornish for ‘tree’, it is also the Middle English ancestor of our word “guide”, related to the Old French “guider”, meaning ‘to guide, lead, conduct’, which some etymologies link to ‘witan’, ‘wit’, ‘weisen’.

Considering the French “Madam la Guiden”, it is of interest that ‘guiden’ means ‘to guide or lead’, especially in context of Cochrane’s phrase of “whatever Madame la Guiden has in store”, indicating an element of Fate. Interestingly, in Norway & Sweden “la guiden” still seems to mean “to guide”, and the word ‘guiden’ appears in some Scottish folk songs as meaning to guide/manage/look after (“see how they’re guiden mei” – see how they’re looking after me). It’s also in the ‘Prioress Tale’, “To guiden us unto thy son so dear”.

I’ve seen it elsewhere suggested that “Guiden…[is] an attempt to invent a feminine form of the English word “God” so that it looks old”. I’ve not had time to look into this too much, but I have found some claiming that the surname “Guiden” is an ancient surname deriving from the older Germanic name “Godino”, a patronymic formed of “god” & (K)”in”, i.e. ‘son’, to create ‘son of god’. Variations in the English register are given as “Godin, Goddin, Godden, Gooden, Gaudin and Guiden (both probably French huguenot) Goodoune, Godain, Guedon etc”.

Don’t know whether this is of any interest to you whatsoever, and it still leaves the question as to what then the “Guiden Corn” might mean, but thought it would be worth throwing another light upon the matter!

By: Grevel

Grevel — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 13:55:22 +0000

Many thanks for this, Stuart. And apologies for my ignorance: I’m not a Cochrane expert, just the person who happened to find the letters; and there’s a certain amount of misinformation around on the subject of Cochrane’s life. I’ll check out the essay you mention.

By: Stuart Inman

Stuart Inman — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 22:09:25 +0000

Dear Grevel
I nenjoyed the Cauldron article immensely and there’s all sorts of things to pick over for sad cochranites like me!
I’d like to point out though that your statements about Cochrane’s death are rather inaccurate. He did not die at midsummer, but several days later, he did take the deadly cocktail at midsummer though. Also, there is no doubt that Cochrane committed suicide as his suicide note was found.
You can find all the details in Gavin Semple’s essay “A Poisoned Chalice” which can be found on the Clan of Tubal Cain website.
Best wishes
Stuart